Mandarin 中文 versus 越南文

以下是来自的来宾帖子“Prince Roy.” If 您’已经关注博客圈很长时间了, time, 您 might recognize the name and remember his China blog, which was hosted on the (now defunct) 中国剪接blogging network. He also wrote the guest 文章 Integrated 中文 (Levels 1, 2): A View From the Trenches 在中国剪纸上也是如此。在这篇文章中,他’将分享他的个人学习经验 越南文 在 preparation for being stationed there 通过 the U.S. State Department, after having already learned Mandarin 中文 years ago to an advanced level.


When 约翰 asked me to comment on my experiences learning 越南文and 中文, I was happy to oblige, because it allows me to try and wrap my head around what I’ve been through since I began studying 越南文last September (8 ½ months ago now). In the 在 terests of full disclosure, I studied 中文 for a total of five years, and have spoken it now almost 25 years.

I will cut to the chase: 越南文is enormously more difficult than 中文. Hands down. It’s not even close. Some of 您 may recall a seminal essay 通过 David Moser: “Why 中文 Is So Damn Hard”. I had the pleasure to meet David recently (his 中文 is superb, 通过 the way), and here’s some unsolicited advice for David and anyone else who might agree with him: if 您 think 中文 is 硬, steer far, far clear of 越南文. I studied both 语言s 在 a very 在 tensive environment, but when I recall my (much greater) proficiency 在 中文 after the equivalent period spent learning 越南文, I can only cringe 在 shame at my Viet 在 adequacy. True, this is just my own experience, but don’t take my word for it—every person I know who has studied both 语言s sings the same sad song—Chinese is far easier than 越南文in every way except, just maybe, reading. Why is this? Here are a few general thoughts:

发音

This is the big one. It is 硬 to imagine two sound systems more diametrically opposed than English and 越南文. Every aspect of 越南文phonology is 硬. 越南文has single, double and even triple 元音s. Few of them are remotely similar to English, and just the slightest mispronunciation will result 在 an unintended 元音. This, compounded with the tones, can easily render one’s speech unintelligible or worse.

辅音的发音可能会有所不同,具体取决于它出现在单词的开头还是结尾。英语或普通话不存在多种鼻音和声门音。在越南南部,我正在学习的方言,人们通常将“ v”发音为“ y”,更令人困惑的是,“ d”和“ gi”也发音为“ y”音。给我最大困难的辅音对是t /đ(与上面的“ d”不同)。在普通速度语音中,我无法区分它们。只有在我非常仔细地听的情况下,才能在语言实验室中学习。这里有一个现实的例子说明了为什么如此重要的原因:在越南很常见的一道菜是phởbòtái(稀有牛肉河粉)。但是当我用越南语发音时,我的老师说他们听到的是“phởbòđái”,实际上是“ cow piss pho”。哎呀。嗯…服务员?

In short, I’ve found 中文 phonology presents much less difficulty than 越南文.

音调

越南文Tones

图片来自 维基百科

Like 中文, 越南文is tonal, but the similarity ends there. The northern (Hanoi) dialect has 6 tones; the southern (Saigon) has 5. Thankfully, I’m learning the Saigon dialect, because that extra tone of the Hanoi dialect is a ‘creaky’ tone which has the effect to my ears like nails on chalkboard. I had hoped my experience with 中文 would prove beneficial—the tones 在 Mandarin always seemed somewhat 在 tuitive to me, even from when I first began to study the 语言. Not to say I am completely error free, but tones were never problematic for me to the degree they often are for other students.

Having spoken 中文 for so many years, I plead guilty to tonal transfer, but 在 my own defense, tones 在 越南文are more subtle, and for me, not nearly as 在 tuitive. Two that give me a lot of trouble are the dấu huyền and dấu nặng tones (low-falling and low-dropping), particularly when occurring consecutively and spoken at conversational speed. Also, the dấu sắc (high-rising) tone is tough for me, because I tend to produce it like the second tone of Mandarin, which is wrong. However, tones are the least of my worries 在 越南文; I think they will come more naturally after I arrive 在 Vietnam this August. And at least my teachers tell me I sound tonal when I speak, albeit with a somewhat pronounced 中文 accent.

语法等

越南文, like 中文 and English, is an SVO 语言. But that is its only concession. 越南文grammar is the most difficult aspect of the 语言 after pronunciation. Similar to 中文, sentence particles are a very important grammatical component, but 越南文takes this to a stratospheric level of complexity. I also believe 中文 is more flexible than 越南文—in the former, once 您 learn a particular sentence pattern, 您 can pretty much plug anything 在 to it, and while it might not be the way a native speaker would say it, they will often understand 您. Not so 在 越南文. Phrase memorization is more useful than patterns, because if 您 don’t say it exactly like a 越南文does, 您 will usually encounter a blank expression on the face of 您r listener.

Another characteristic of 越南文is it boasts an extraordinary number of synonyms. 中文 is rich 在 synonyms too, of course, but the difference is that 在 中文, 您 might commonly encounter two to three of them 在 typical popular usage. In 越南文, it seems people like to use all of them.

但是一切并没有丢失

越南语确实是一种非常丰富,复杂的语言-实际上,我和我的同学都在开玩笑:TiếngViệtrấtphongphú(越南语是一种非常丰富的语言)=越南语确实非常,非常难。但是学习汉语的中国人有一个优势。由于越南是中国的殖民地,已有大约1000年的时间,因此中文对越南语产生了巨大的影响。到目前为止,我最多可以掌握60%的中文词汇。然而,与中国的紧密关系既是福也是祸。这是一种祝福,因为在文本中遇到单词时,我经常可以正确地猜出单词的含义;而由于彼此之间的亲密关系,使我更难以自己的语言来使用越南语,因此这是一种诅咒。十分自豪和独立。我感觉好像在用越南语踩水,而我用中文的设施几乎让我的鼻孔都在水面上。这就是为什么我对同班同学中的那些人感到敬畏的原因,他们在越南语中取得了良好的进步而没有中文的帮助。这使他们的成就更加惊人。

分享

约翰·帕斯登

约翰是上海的语言学家和企业家, 全集学习.

评论

  1. David Moser 说: 2014年5月20日上午11:45

    阿格,是的,你’我已经说服了,越南人听起来很难听。可以公平地说,确实,对于中文来说,文字是真正的问题,而对于越南语来说,这是真正的问题。’实际的口头语言。大约十年前,当我帮助一个越南移民家庭的朋友时,我尝试学习一些越南语短语。我也尝试将音调转移到我的告密者说出的超音调中,但是我不能’不要头也不尾。听起来像第二声的那个显然不是,但是这种差异太微妙了,我无法察觉。我对语法一无所知,但我相信你。但是如果我们’re talking about “Chinese”从广义上讲,我想知道越南人如何叠起广东话?广东话对我来说也总是令人生畏,但从你身上’重新说语法可能仍然比越南语容易得多。幸运的是,在我的年龄和生活中,’我可能永远不会去解决任何一个。一世’令您敬畏,甚至尝试。如果上帝在巴别塔之后创造了不同的语言来惩罚我们,那么他一定会添加色调语言作为一种特别的虐待主义酷刑形式。

  2. Having done considerable Mandarin and a smattering of 越南文, I have had much the same experience. I think English pronunciation is difficult for foreigners because of our large variety of subtly different 元音 sounds. 越南文is the first foreign 语言 I’我遇到过在这方面我们胜过的人。普通话有一些与英语不同的声音区别,但最终可能的音节数量远比越南语(或英语)有限。

    我没有’t found 越南文tones to be such an issue.

    And for some reason, I find 越南文vocabulary just doesn’t “stick”和普通话一样容易。

    如果你没有’t tried it, I highly recommend 您 use Chữ Nôm to identify 中文 cognates for 越南文words. For example, “special” 在 越南文is “đặc biệt”. This didn’直到我看到Chu Nom就是钟声为止:“te4 bie2” 在 Mandarin, “tokubetsu” 在 Japanese, “dak6 bit6” 在 Cantonese.

    • Serge, as a learner / speaker of Mandarin myself, I do also want to know what words are the same 在 中文 rather than attempt to recognize them or guess when I encounter then. 您 say Chu Nom, but as I understand, that’s是越南语中使用的所有字符的总称,其中包括专门为越南语组成的字符。

      Do 您 know of any resources, hopefully online and free, that show specifically ONLY the words shared 在 中文 and 越南文? And I do mean “words,”不是字符,我已经有了一些东西(http://nomfoundation.org/nom-tools/Nom-Lookup-Tool/Nom-Lookup-Tool)

      请让我知道,谢谢。

      • My 越南文instructors tell me such a reference exists, but I didn’t find one on my recent immersion trip there 在 March. Regular 中文-Vietnamese/Vietnamese-Chinese dictionaries abound.

        但是,我确实找到了一个非常酷的字典:TừểiểnThànhNgữ-TụcNgữViệt-Hán,越汉成语俗语词典,由出版商NhàXuấtBảnVănHoáSàiGòn发行。它的缺点是它没有’提供用法的定义或示例。到达西贡后,我绝对打算储备这些参考资料。书籍在越南物有所值,出版质量也很高。

      • Luu Vinh Phuc 说: 2014年10月23日,上午2:28

        另一个非常好的查找​​中越单词的字典:HánViệtTừểiểnTríchDẫn– 漢越辭典摘引 http://www.hanviet.org/

        其他一些 http://hvdic.thivien.net/ http://www.viethoc.org/hannom/tdtc_intro.php

      • 我建议han-viet.com

        使用示例人:

        This lookup tool will link the 中文 character (ex: 人 rén, as opposed to the Chu Nom character) with its Sino-VietNamese form (nhân), but will also 在 clude the more modern Chu Nom forms ((2) thằng, (3) người).

        người(1)nhân,(2)thằng,(3)người人rén(nhân)[Vh @ QT人rén< MC ɲin <OC * nin | cđMC臻开三平真日| Pt如邻| PNH:海。 dang2,jəŋ32,QĐjan4,jan12,Hẹngin2(ɲin12),Bkʐjən12,Tnʐẽ12,Taʐẽ12,Thnzjəŋ1,Hknjən12,Txzjən12,Dươngchâuljən12,Tczjən12(lit. ɲin12,Ôczaŋ12,Tsʐjən12,Shuangfeng 在 12,Nx lan31,Hmʐin12,$laŋ12,Hai。 njəŋ32,Trcnaŋ12,Pkiŋ12 $loyŋ12,Thzjəŋ32,$ɲiŋ32,Zyyy:ʐijən12|硕文:天地之性最贵者也。此籒文。象臂扭曲之形。凡人之属皆从人。如邻切〖注〗

  3. 塞尔吉,谢谢你的例子。 dac6 bit6与đặcbiệt的对比证实了我的观点’ve suspected all along: a speaker of Cantonese would find 越南文much less difficult. Naturally, the 越南文words that 棒 best for me are those with close 中文 equivalents: phong phú/丰富; giao thông/交通; hiện đậi/现代; phát minh/发明…words like that.

    • 粤语至少在语音上似乎肯定更接近。我有几个越南朋友(当地人/国际学生)承认,如果他们’围绕着各种亚洲人,没有注意或没有’听不到,他们可以’无法确定他们是否听到有人说越南语或广东话。

      很高兴知道这些等同内容。一世’m整理了一个表格/数据库,以了解各种亚洲语言中的字符/音节之间的关系,因此’很好,我必须添加这些。但是,如果您看到我对Serge的问题,我’m looking for a dictionary or something that shows shared words between 中文 语言s and 越南文.

    • Tung Dinh 说: 2014年7月28日下午2:23

      sơn是san(山)
      风(风)风(风)
      ả是海(海洋)
      京阿京(主要城市)京阿北京

      我不’t know chinese, i’m a 越南文speaker. But I know we share a lot of words with 中文. We call them Hán-Việt, which we got 在 fluenced 通过 the Han dynasty during the colonial period. I was born and grew up 在 Vietnam, I finished high school there but honestly 我不’我不认识汉维特(HánViệt),也没有很多越南人擅长汉维特(HánViệt)。我们主要使用现代越南语,我认为在Chữquốcngữ发明之后,它发生了很大变化。

      I think 越南文grammar isn’t very 硬, it’在某些方面类似于英语。我们不’没有时态,问题形式只能在最后加上一些单词。

      例,
      điđâu? (去哪里?)
      ngủchưa(睡着了吗?)我觉得我们缩短了很多句子。
      làmcáigì(vậy)? (做什么?)

      Taođilàmngàymai。我明天去上班。
      Ngàymai taođilàm。明天我去上班。

      Hômqua taođilàm。昨天我上班。
      Taođilàmhômqua。我昨天上班。

      Tenses are so simple, we only put time adverb to 在 dicate tense without transforming the 话, not like English.

  4. I could have written this post! I learned 中文 for 2 years (1 在 Australia, 1 在 Beijing) before a 3 year posting 在 Beijing. I was never a brilliant linguist and I struggled with tones but I could be understood. I requalified to a high level of proficiency twice (including while 37 weeks pregnant) and then 5 years later started 越南文. I thought it would be the same, I thought I could get 通过 without tones. My teacher was kind on me 在 Australia and I tested well. But after a 3.5 month break (to have our second child) I arrived 在 Hanoi and realised I could barely be understood. I can read signs, pick up a bit 在 conversations, speak basiclaly and I do a party trick of starting and finishing speeches 在 越南文. Going back to China last year after 9 years, and my 中文 came flooding back –和人们理解。但是在我们的系统中,普通话(由于字符)的学习时间为2年,而越南语的学习时间为1年(尽管至少在国内的时间从4周增加到12周)。很棒的帖子谢谢

  5. Reading this makes me want to study 越南文. I should probably keep working on my 中文 for a while first though. I’将其添加到我有一天想要学习的语言列表中,但是除非我最终住在那里,否则永远不会。

  6. It would be great if 您 can also do a comparison of some other southeast Asian tonal 语言s, such as 泰国 and 老挝 with Mandarin 中文. I wonder whether they are similarly difficult to learn like 越南文.

  7. 嗨,亚历克斯,

    As a matter of fact, I studied 老挝 before my posting to Vientiane from 2009-2011.

    老挝 presents much fewer difficulties than 越南文. The most difficult aspect is the script, but it is quite consistent, and actually not all that 硬 to learn.

    对于说英语的人来说,声音系统没有问题。

    老挝语有6种色调,但我们从未真正教过它们,我会说,错误的色调不会妨碍与老挝人的交流。他们会至少90%的时间了解您,这主要是由于背景所致,也因为老挝人的性格很随和–他们真的很想和你说话。

  8. 安吉拉,我’ve argued (in vain up to now), for a re-designation of 越南文to a ‘super-hard’ rather than just ‘hard’. It would be great to get an extra year of 在 struction, especially 在 -country as is the case for 中文, Japanese, Korean and Arabic.

  9. 罗伊

    作为越南本地人’现在是美国公民),我完全可以与“super 硬”越南语的性质。我们甚至有句俗话:“Phong babãotápkhôngbằngngữpháp越南”(暴风雨比越南文法难处理)。

    关于t /đ的发音,对于新手来说,您可以使用英语的t和d来近似这些声音(如您所知,越南语d的发音与德语j / English y相似)。大多数人会很好地理解您的意思(事实上,许多美国出生的越南人虽然会说流利的越南语,但也以这种方式发音这些辅音)。为此,越南人“th” and “ch”可以用英语近似“th” and “ch”以及(尽管越南人“th”更接近普通话“t”,如您的“交通/ giaothông”)。但是,我同意,如果您想正确处理这些声音,则需要与教练一起练习。

    至于音调,我们非常宽容,而且在大多数情况下,上下文始终会决定单词的含义。实际上,休ế族人的发音与北方和南方人的发音不同,我们理解他们很好。

    当我开始学习普通话时,第二和第四声调常常像绊倒你一样使我绊倒。我花了一段时间才习惯了将第二音调为dấusắc和将第四音调为dấuhuyền的习惯。当我们’re on the topic, I’d说dấuhỏi的发音与普通话第二声(名,国,人等)完全相同,而dấunặng的发音与第三声(我,你等)一样。 Dấusắc的发音几乎像普通话1st一样,因为它的音调是南部重音(don’您无需担心dấungã,该音高比北部重音的dấusắc高。这些显然只是近似值,但它们可以使您更加接近。

    正如您已经指出的,’s a lot of cognates between 越南文and 中文 so knowing 中文 is a great advantage when it comes to learning 越南文. Besides the meaning, these cognates also share a tonal mapping system, which I’我将在下面描述。

    在普通话和越南语中,我们将音色分为2组:bằng(平)和trắc(斜仄)。现在要记住的规则是,大多数时候’例外),一个普通话单词和它的越南同源语将属于同一个音调组,无论是水平的还是倾斜的。

    第一组– Bằng (level 平)
    越南文bằng: dấu huyền và ngang (level)
    平语:第一声和第二声

    例子:
    名-> danh
    人-> nhân
    同-> đồng
    知-> tri

    当然有’s exceptions (typically due to 越南文also adopting Cantonese).
    十->thập(我们是从粤语sap6中获得的)
    发->phát(再次,我们从广东话那里得到的)
    出->xuất(可能是相同的原因)
    国-> quốc

    2组– Trắc (oblique 仄)
    越南文trắc: sắc, hỏi (ngã), nặng
    普通话仄:3和4音
    例子:
    美-> mỹ (as 在 nước Mỹ)
    现代-> hiện đại (using 您r example)
    历史-> lịch sử
    政治-> chính trị
    法律-> pháp luật

    有没有’这里似乎没有很多例外。我可以’不要想起我头顶上的一个’s a good thing).

    Using this tonal mapping trick helps me get the tones right when I learn Mandarin. At least, now I have a 50/50 shot as opposed to 1/4. I think it would help 您 learn 越南文as well.

    Finally, a great website to look up 中文/Vietnamese cognates is http://www.hanviet.org/.

    最好,

    • Thinh Nguyen 说: 2016年10月25日上午6:26

      @Dinh Ton: I think 您 make some confusion 在 the use of d, đ, t, and th.
      First off, 在 越南文D(d) and Đ(đ) are two distinct letters. They make completely different sounds, and so is the letter t. Even for English speakers there should not be any confusion between t/d/đ.

      The 越南文“t”与西班牙的t完全相同,这与英语的t完全不同。
      越南人“th”根本就没有英文的对等词。在IPA中记录为/tʰ/。我会说“th”最接近英语t。

      记住t和th的简单技巧:T =西班牙语t。 Th =英制t。

      The 越南文“đ”(顶部带有小斜线)的发音与英语d非常相似(不完全相同,但几乎相同)。
      Now the 越南文“d” (without a slash like the đ) is pronounce similar to German j and English y. 越南文people 在 the North tend to pronounce the d similar to English z.

      越南文“ch”, “tr”被发音为英语ch和tr(在通道和卡车中)。在南方,人们倾向于发音“ch”稍有不同’没有英语水平),但您应该能够说出来。在北部,人们同时将ch和tr都发音为“ch”.

      越南文“gi”与英文z相同。
      越南文“g” or “gh”与英文g。请注意,当g出现在i / e /ê之前时,它将变为gh。

      越南文“r”从理论上讲,应将其发音为西班牙语中的rr,但我所不知道,最发音类似于英语r。在北部,人们喜欢将r发音为英语z。在南方,人们将其发音为英语j。

      越南文“ng” does not exist 在 English nor most Western 语言s. 您 just have to learn how to pronounce it.

  10. Very 在 teresting. Personally, I find grammar to be the easiest aspect of 越南文by far. It’s隔离,所以没有共轭:日本人的祝福。

  11. Another layer of difficulty 在 越南文is “I” and 您”. Unlike 中文, the personal pronoun to refer to “You” and “I”根据说话者和听者的相对位置而不同。

    您 need to learn a very complex system of pronouns, only for saying ‘You’ and ‘I’, I mean, just to start 您r saying… Oh, my God.

    I’一个韩国人和我的母语韩国人在这种复杂的环境中非常相似‘you’ and ‘I’但是我们韩国人‘remove’棘手的部分,然后说,没有明确提到那个复杂‘you’,使我们免于错误和粗鲁的言语负担。

    But 在 越南文, 您 are not allowed to omit ‘you’/’I’。即使是非常简单的句子,也几乎使我无法开始。耶稣。

    • 实际上,在非正式情况下,您可以省略代词。哎呀,如果你’不是越南人/唐’t have 越南文relatives, 您 immediately 通过pass a large portion of the kinship terms. 您 can 棒 to things like anh, chi, em, toi, ban, ong, ba, chu, co…不需要thim,mo,duong,co / coc,noi,ngoai之类的东西…

    • 好吧,bạn&ô?无论如何,是的,ti ngviệtrấtkhó:为什么我要爱上一个哈诺族女孩,因为它大声地哭泣!

  12. 野本

    中文 also has many way to say I and 您 traditionally. 但它 has probably been simplified for foreigners learning Mandarin.

    您 can learn the various ways 通过 watching ancient drama movies.

  13. I’自从八月下旬以来,我一直在国内。我上面写的所有内容仍然适用,并且在这里的经验中得到了验证。但是,一个无法预见的困难是称呼术语。不太适合男人:Em,如果他们’再年轻很多Anh,如果年龄相同或不超过十年;为老年人或有权威的人服务。

    但是对于女人来说’s much 硬er. Theoretically: Em if they’re a lot 您nger or for a spouse/gf; Cô, for a woman <40; Chị为已婚妇女>35; Bà代表年长的妇女或当权的妇女。

    但它’至少在南方不是那么清晰。一世’m never sure how to address any female older than 30. Maybe some 越南文speakers here can offer some 在 put.

    • 您’chị没错,但是它’不仅用于已婚女性。它’用于年龄较大的女性,但年龄小于cô*。但仅供参考,已婚人士通常使用em,越南99%的丈夫会称呼妻子为em,而不是chị。即使在关系和婚姻中女人比男人大,这也适用。如果女性比您大,通常应该是Chị。如果她30岁左右,并且离您的年龄还很远,通常应该是cô。例如,如果您’re 18 and she’s 30, it’scô。如果你25岁,她’s 30,应该ch。至于当局,我们不’只能使用ông。实际上,最有可能我们赢了’不得将其用于授权。我们宁愿使用bắc(HồChíMinh是一个很好的例子),’这两个词之间略有不同。唐’别忘了我们还有与男性cô相同的chú。 *对于老年人来说,他们仍然可以同时使用chị和cô,但同样适用,这取决于年龄范围。我知道,因为我是越南华裔。

      • 谢谢那个 ’很有帮助,但仍然模糊。是的,我听到人们说很多。字面意思是‘uncle’但我可以发誓’我也听到人们用这种方式对妇女讲话。

      • It’s “bác”,确切地说。罗伊亲王,是的,人们会用“bác” to address older women, but usually they have to be much older than 您. 您 also use “bác”适用于家庭中排名靠前的女性“bác”特别是,但是你赢了’无论如何都不能使用它,所以我赢了’t go deeper.
        I’米北部越南人。

    • The correct term to use is dependent upon both the age and the relationship one shares with that 在 dividual. If 您’re a foreigner then generally 您 can 棒 to the default kinship terms.

      如果女性比你年轻’s em. If she’s older it’schị。如果她像大一辈那样唱歌’s默认为cô(也可以是thím/mợ/bác,但您不知道’如果您不必担心’因为他们是外国人’关系差异)。例如bác通常用于您的父亲叔叔/姨妈’比你父亲大。否则’s cô. If it’然后是一个ternal’s cậu, if it’是一个姨母’如果分别比您的母亲大和小,则为cô或dì。 Mợ是你ternal’是你的父亲叔叔的伴侣’s spouse. 您r maternal (older) aunt’s spouse is dượng.

      It goes on and on but if 您’re a foreigner 您 can 棒 to just anh, chị, em, tôi, bạn, á, cô…

  14. Interesting, because being Spanish, I find the t/đ pair 简单 to differentiate (in Spanish it is almost identical, and no, English and Spanish are not similar at all here), but I find the 中文 pairs t/d, b/p and g/k extremely 硬 to differentiate 在 normal speech. I guess another “nasal”您所指的声音是西班牙语ñ。

    还有,那是什么“很少有元音与英语相似”? Unless all the IPA transcriptions 在 books are wrong, from what I can see, there is only ONE 越南文元音 that does not exist 在 English (three, if 您 在 clude the unrounded /ɯ/ and /ɤ/). 中文 has several 元音s that English does not have, like the previous 越南文/ɯ/ and /ɤ/, the funny “vowel” sound (syllabic consonant) 您 get 在 日, both 元音s 在 月 (/ɥ/ and /œ/ -although the latter is used 在 New Zealand English and a few other places), the French-like 元音 在 女 (/y/), and 鼻ized 元音s (ɑ̃ ə̃ ʊ̃). I can accept that 您 personally found 中文 easier to pronounce, but objectively, 您r 元音 argument does not seem to make much sense.

  15. If 您 have problem with dau nang and huyen, then most likely 您 will forever sound like a foreigner. Pronouncing tái is 简单, try pronouncing more complicated word such as nứa, lưu.
    I think 您r post is exaggerating, 越南文is easier than 中文. And some 越南文do understand if 您 say words 在 wrong order, but if 您 can’念出正确的单词然后你’重新搞砸了。我听到外国人认为他们已经掌握了该发音。可以肯定,他们正在尝试,但是通话时音调永远不会自然流逝。而且我认为您可能会发现很难,因为即使您’重新学习简易方言(saigon),您仍然必须使用属于North的官方书写系统。所以’学习河内方言更有益。即使有许多不使用河内方言的越南本地人,他们仍然必须知道所有6个标记。

    • Perhaps 越南文may be easier to 您 but I doubt it’s the case for everyone, especially given how many more consonants and 元音s there are 在 越南文in comparison to Mandarin.

      你什至是什么意思“easy”方言? AFAIK没有这种东西。越南语的标准化书面形式并非唯一的北方语言(至少是现代方言)。如果仔细分析,它实际上在包含两个主要区域性演讲方面做得很好。

      The 在 itial consonants are closer to the Southern speech while the rest (the 元音s and endings) are closer to the Northern speech. Regardless, this should serve little relevance.

      As for learning the Hanoi dialect, if OP happens to live 在 Saigon or amongst the 越南文overseas diaspora, then it’更明智,更适合他(她)学习该地区大多数人的演讲。

  16. 我是越南人,我的专业是英语.2011年毕业,我大学三年级时不得不学习普通话。毕业后。在重新开始之前,我放弃了3年普通话。重新开始确实是很痛苦。我现在自己学习普通话。但是我在尝试同时学习繁体和简体普通话的过程中犯了一个错误。其次,我应该使用语法翻译方法,因为越南语拥有70%的汉语词汇。汉·维特(HánViệt)。但是我确实通过英语定义学习了所有中文新词。我先从301本中文句子书开始,然后又转到了汉语教程6本书。学习第5本书,第70单元,我完全迷路了。我意识到我每天不记得一个单元40-60个新单词,不能学习繁体中文和简体中文,英文的中文定义对我的学习没有帮助(我使用pleco词典)。我搜索了Internet,然后找到了Hackingchinese网站和该网站。目前,我使用循序渐进的中文书,每天凌晨5点至上午7点学习2个小时,每天学习20个单词(目前为止我的极限)。此刻,我专注于建立词汇基础,然后才能依靠和继续学习其他技能。我去过重庆两次,去过香港两次,但是我的中文老师因为我可以要求指示和点菜而感到羞耻,就像一个当地人说的那样。他可以说和听懂简单的汉语。回到越南,我认为学习者应该我首先要学习河内的声音,因为我认为这是标准的

  17. 我不’t remember what 中文 to me sounded like when I didn’t know it, but 越南文does sound very difficult phonologically. //www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWZ620nh_S0

  18. Clayton Davis 说: 2015年8月1日,上午10:07

    这贴子是完全正确的。在我学习越南语之前,我以为是“Chinese lite.” Then learned Cantonese and saw how easily that went when compared with Mandarin and I became even more arrogant. Then I finally sat down and started learning 越南文and I made barely any progress the first year despite working on it every day. To be fair Mandarin was 硬, too, back 在 the dark ages, but I have had so many more resources for learning 越南文in the Internet age 和after having Cantonese come smoothly I was sure I’d越南语做得更好。声音系统很难听得到。元音和辅音与我所使用的任何语言几乎都不同’ve studied so I’即使我记住对白,我也总是对听到的声音感到困惑。

    如果你不这样做’相信我,至少要考虑一下。在所有说英语的人中,我’ve hear, I’d说越南人最难理解。一世’甚至遇到了几名自小学时代起就住在美国的40多岁的专业人员,他们有时很难用某些单词来理解。当我的公司试图寻找要聘用越南语和英语的双语者时,尽管我们是越南人口最多的国家之一,但迄今为止这是最困难的。
    It’s not as 简单 to learn as people make it out to be.

  19. 我在世界各地担任援助人员已有16年。我学会了讲多种语言的能力,自从紧急事件结束后我就无法流利流利。但是我也很容易接达里(阿富汗北部),斯瓦希里语(肯尼亚)。

    泰语花了一段时间,但一年后,我设法像个六岁的孩子一样说话,”me like me no like’数到十,说出时间等等,当我四处旅行进行开发项目时,我很容易就能被泰国/英语鸽子理解。北部和中部地区的方言之间存在轻微差异。 Sawatdee jow而不是sawatdee khrup。

    I have been studying 越南文for 6 years, and am no closer to being understood now than I was the day I arrived here.

    残酷的事实是,欧洲人根本无法发出音调!!!

    此外,越南人无法猜测您想要什么。例如,当您在餐厅索要账单并索要账单时(即使您做出写支票的口头标志)…他们会打电话给经理,问你想要什么…他们以为你要一桶牛尿…!!!没关系,我说了多少次,直到今天,当我要求帐单时,服务员等都会感到困惑…

    I know people who have been here 16 years, who speak perfectly to my ears, who still have 越南文people staring at them blankly when they try to converse with them.

    越南文is a coastal 语言 first and foremost. Each VILLAGE has its own dialect.. these differ dramatically as 您 go further up and down the coast!!

    我和一名越南导游及巴士司机从河内进行了自行车之旅。.当我们到达芽庄(中途下来)时,他无法理解当地人在说什么。.我毫不夸张地说。这个中央方言再次不同于HCMC和河内。

    老实说,我很遗憾我花了这么多时间来学习这种语言,到目前为止,我已经花了很多时间和精力在越南语上流利使用两种其他语言(法语和俄语)。

    我只听过一个外国人像当地人一样说话,那是大约1980年以来一直在这里的60岁的美国传教士。’s.

    To be brutally honest, I would advise 您 to study something else. I continue to plod along because my fiance is 越南文… 😉

    • 我认为欧洲人绝对可以使越南语成为哈哈

      I think Northern tones are easier to make than Southern tones. Southern tones are too exaggerated and 硬 for speakers of non tonal 语言s to make. However I think Southern tones are easier for 中文 people to make.

      Northern tones are like the tones 您 use 在 singing. I think 您 should practice with 越南文karaoke. Notice that all 越南文people sing 在 Northern 越南文, unless they are singing country songs or folk songs from their own region.

      I’ll leave 您 with this song, which I think has quite 简单 pronunciations and slow enough for a learner to catch up with all the words

  20. I think another feature that makes 越南文hard is also the amount of 中文 vocabulary we have acquired. Not only words but we have borrowed entire idioms and proverbs. So sometimes 在 conversations we would throw 在 a 中文 proverb. I think this happens more 在 the North than the South. We also use 中文 words when we want to be sarcastic, as euphemism or when we want to sound sophiscated lol
    因此,这可能会使尝试学习我们语言的外国人感到困惑
    也是为了纠正一些观点,越南人没有’t borrow from a cantonese but from Classical 中文. 中文 vocabulary 在 越南文resembles its counterparts 在 Korean and Japanese. Many words are closer to Mandarin, other to Cantonese. For example hoang is closer to mandarin Huang than cantonese wang

  21. On a 中文 polyglot forum I see some people are saying Burmese>Khmer>Thai>Lao>Vietnamese.. Burmese being the 硬est one while 越南文being the easiest one. Is that also true for 您 guys? I’m curious to know.

    • It’s going to be 硬 to find someone that can comment on all 4 语言s! (Especially someone whose mother tongue is English, and not one of the 4, which would 在 evitably distort their perceptions of the other 3.)

  22. palomnik 说: 2016年6月24日晚上10:48

    我现在在东南亚生活了八年– four years 在 泰国land and four years 在 Vietnam. My undergraduate degree was 在 中文, and I learned 泰国 quite well when I lived there. I also have had no problem with 老挝 (but 在 fact 泰国 and 老挝 are so close that there’如果您已经懂泰语,那么学习它的工作就不会花费太多的精力。即使在缅甸呆了一个星期,我也能以惊人的程度理解和交流。我曾经在越南工作–我在这里的第一年有一位老师–这一直是令人沮丧的练习。我同意大多数约翰·帕斯登的观点’上面的初步意见;越南语的发音非常困难,尽管使用了IPA符号,但越南语的元音与任何欧洲语言的元音并没有真正的相似,并且经常与其他亚洲语言的元音不同。什么’更重要的是,元音之间的差异可能非常微妙。另外,元音长度在越南语中也是一个问题。
    但是,已经知道我会说一些越南语的人可以轻松理解我。这使我对外国人学习越南语产生了怀疑–越南人唐’不要指望您会说越南语,当您这样做或尝试这样做时,他们可能会感到困惑甚至尴尬。这听起来并不荒谬;在日本待过一段时间的人经常会遇到同样的问题,而我’m told that it’在韩国也不例外,尽管我’ve never been there.
    当然,这使得学习语言的努力令人沮丧– if nobody wants to talk to 您, why bother to learn it?

  23. Vy Nguyen 说: 2016年6月29日下午12:33

    这是来自尝试学习越南语的外国人的有趣观点。作为一个在移民美国之前在越南出生,成长和生活了11年的人,从我自己的经验中可以看出,在所有地区方言中,中方言是最多的。很难理解。在过去的某些情况下,我很难理解当地人在说些什么。有时我什至放弃尝试。因此,我完全可以理解您对学习越南语的无奈。

  24. For me, 越南文is not 硬 because it is my native 语言. 中文 is like so 简单. But to most beginners, 越南文is a HARD 语言. Mandarin is like a breeze. I can speak 越南文, 中文, French, Spanish, and English. And I am only 12. Languages are sooooo fun. I would NOT recommend learning it if 您 only know English ( Beginners )

  25. nguyenaky 说: 2017年6月6日上午11:30

    Most people are correct 越南文had borrowed a lots from 中文 especially Cantonese. Many words from Cantonese pretty much 越南文people can understand few words like “Long”龙俩都能听懂那句话。但是不要 ’别忘了现代越南人与我们没有很大不同’t said “Long” but we said “Rồng”。同样,HàNội几乎将其称为原始越南语,其中大部分单词是从广东话和普通话中借来的。但是在哈尼(HàNội)中,有几句话仍然像字母一样发音不同“L” can become “N”,诺基亚会变成Lokia。对于像SàiGòn这样的南方人,您会听到人们念念这封信的念头“R” will turn 在 to “G,Gh” and “V” will turn 在 to “D,Gi. For example “Đi ra”(出去,出去)会变成“đi ga” and “đi vô”( go 在 ) turn 在 to “đi dô”. 越南文had borrow numerous sruffs not only from 中文,also French and Spanish, Portuguese of course English also. Most closest words are Cantonese. Hán –Việt,ChữNôm几乎是过去的日子。我们仍然有话语,但越南语比较现代’t used much of those from 中文 anymore.

  26. I’m 越南文speaker, and I’ve been learning English for nearly 10 years, Japanese for 3 months and 中文 for 1 month and I found the most difficult parts of these 语言s: 中文 writing, Japanese listening and English collocation and idioms.
    也许是因为我’m 越南文, I find it no difficuty. But I think, 越南文speaking is the 硬est part.

  27. 我不’认为普通话比越南语要难。我认为一个巨大的区别是,无论您如何用普通话屠宰普通话,许多人都可以(或将尝试)理解您。因为在中国大多数人不’不能正确说普通话,而且人们已经习惯了来自不同省份(不是普通话的母语)的人们说普通话。
    In Vietnam they are not forgiving about 您 speaking it 在 correctly.
    我的西班牙语口音很恐怖。在美国,他们通常可以理解我。但是,如果我去墨西哥,他们不会。我的西班牙天堂’根本没有改变。是听众。

  28. This is an old post so I’m not sure if 您’re still learning 越南文or have already mastered it. Very well written post btw. I really enjoyed reading it.

    I just started learning Mandarin using 您Tube videos (wow can I just say they’re really amazing. I find them a lot better than the teachers I had when I was learning English).

    As a native vietnamese speaker, I might be biased and think 越南文is easier lol. As 长 as 您 master the alphabet, the accents, things will get easier. Everything is just putting the words together. Basically no real grammar. For mandarin, ia ie becomes ya ye, ua uo becomes wa wo. 越南文has none of that. 您 don’t have to remember any 特别 rules. Not to mention how 硬 it is to learn the Mandarin characters.

    越南南方人通常不会正确发音“ v”和“ r”。他们会像“ d”或“ gi”或“ r”(如“ g”)一样发音“ v”。但是这些人通常不是专业人士,或者实际上居住在西贡以外的国家(乡村)。如果您住在西贡,大多数人都会正确发音。因此,您不能真正责怪语言,但人们会大声笑。我会说“正确的”越南语,并按应有的发音发音。

    我将以美国为例。如果您住在肯塔基州这样的地区,那里的人通常不会说“正确的”英语,听起来也不像您在电视上听到的人。路易斯维尔(Louisville)的发音是louvol或类似的意思,不要让我开始学习他们的语法,并双重否定“我什么也没做”或“我做到了”。想象一个陌生的英语人,听到这样的声音–他们会挠头吗?大声笑

    我曾在美国的许多州生活(肯塔基州是其中之一),我对口音确实有更好的欣赏。这就是为什么我要确保我学到正确的普通话“口音”。我绝对不希望普通话的希克斯版本。

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